Culture War Nonsense

[JohnAlexINL]

nor any political activists groups, state actors, etc. It's explicitly free of any "DEI" or similar discriminatory policies. Anybody who's treating others nicely is welcomed.

&&

It doesn't matter which country you're coming from, your [sic] politicial views, your race, your sex, your age, your food menu, whether you wear boots or heels, whether you're furry or fairy, Conan or McKay, comic character, a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri, or just an boring average person. Anybody's welcomed, who's interested in bringing X forward.

If the project genuinely is welcoming of people regardless of background, then this project is "DEI", unambiguously. And if you're really against the "political activist" bullshit, then maybe you should also drop the culture-war nonsense?

[miranda]

Yes, exactly. The README is super toxic and it's getting a lot of attention.

Not a good look if you want the project to succeed (which I do, I'm Xorg till I die).

Why can't this project just have a professional UNIX mission statement? It's alienating a lot of people who would otherwise be supportive.

If you're intentionally trying to shun people who believe that DEI is a positive thing, then you're strongly signaling that this is a right-wing project. It's not apolitical as you claim, no matter how many other words you put in the README.

But, as you will see, there's a lot of people who are very committed to this anti-DEI stance, and think it's the best thing about the README, and take great joy in people being offended by it. And that tells you a lot about what kind of people they are.

Doesn't seem like a good plan for revitalizing the Xorg that we all love and want to live on.

[jayjay73]

Oh, so DEI is not a dog whistle then?

[JohnAlexINL]

Oh, so DEI is not a dog whistle then?

DEI is a shorthand for "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion". Its intent is transparent; it's a slogan intended to categorize policies who's goal it is to make spaces more accessible (or, more accurately, remove artificial barriers that make those spaces inaccessible) for the people who most benefit from / provide most benefit to those same spaces.

That is not a "dogwhistle"; there is no subliminal intent or message. The slogan was specifically designed to be as clear and direct as possible -- to tell you what it means at face-value.

The MAGA reference in the readme, however, is a dogwhistle. It's point is to express a subliminal and nonliteral idea; it is an ingroup signal.

If you don't understand what a dogwhistle is, just say that.

[Lightnet]

I can say it fake DEI behind the mask paid to do their shady job. Just saying nothing has change of their mask to adapt. One they ban the person account to update and refuse to update that was more than +3000 over the years yet there no response. Plus I seen there are 4 or more companies say that they will stop working on xorg packages which show they knew what happen behind the scene. yet they didn't promote this package. Show something up with red flags. Not too lazy in researching what they did it. It puzzle me one doing very nice example to post email list but I guess there no response to them. Show they were order to ignore the this solo dev to update change and fixed.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44217735
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/1l52a52/redhat_banned_a_lead_xorg_developer_killed_their/

They ban the person as well will not say any nonsense for reason for ban show they are smart not get caught by the news media.

If dig deep of the history of red hat and companies relate to xorg. I did quick search on red hat. They hate open src.

In 2023, Red Hat implemented changes to its source code policies, leading to significant backlash within the open-source community. Red Hat's decision to restrict access to RHEL source code behind a paywall has raised concerns about adhering to the GPL license, which mandates that modifications and enhancements be shared. This shift has impacted downstream distributions like AlmaLinux and Rocky Linux, and some perceive it as a betrayal of open-source principles.

The list goes on.

[jayjay73]

That is not a "dogwhistle"; there is no subliminal intent or message.

Explain to me how law suits like this one then come about: https://aflegal.org/victory-u-s-district-court-denies-ibms-motion-to-dismiss-afl-lawsuit-challenging-illegal-race-and-sex-discrimination/

Oh, I see. IBM did not use DEI with a hidden meaning but discriminated openly. Still bad, but technically not a dog whistle, eh?

The slogan was specifically designed to be as clear and direct as possible -- to tell you what it means at face-value.

Well, the court is of another opinion or it wouldn’t allow the case to proceed.

The MAGA reference in the readme, however, is a dogwhistle. It's point is to express a subliminal and nonliteral idea; it is an ingroup signal.

Yes. Rules for thee, but not for me. As if DEI is not a totally obvious in-group signal in the corporate hierarchy for…, well, read the above mentioned court case.

If you don't understand what a dogwhistle is, just say that.

Lel.

[JohnAlexINL]

That is not a "dogwhistle"; there is no subliminal intent or message.

Explain to me how law suits like this one then come about: https://aflegal.org/victory-u-s-district-court-denies-ibms-motion-to-dismiss-afl-lawsuit-challenging-illegal-race-and-sex-discrimination/

Oh, I see. IBM did not use DEI with a hidden meaning but discriminated openly. Still bad, but technically not a dog whistle, eh?

Excerpt from what you're quoting:

it is plausible that IBM’s Diversity Policy [sic] incentivized his managers to discriminate against white males and that Zook’s unrealistic PIP was a means to carry out that policy by creating a pretext to terminate Dill. At this stage, Dill has provided enough facts to state viable race and gender discrimination claims against IBM

A multibillion dollar corporation implementing a DEI program poorly doesn't mean DEI is somehow racist. What a fucking silly nonargument

[JohnAlexINL]

I believe that accessibility is one of the best things about open source, both from the perspective of what has made our community such a powerful cultural movement, and what makes our software as good as it is. And I believe this culture-war bullshit just discourages the very things that make Open Source a Community in the firstplace.

If the best you can offer is "well, IBM bad, therefore reactionary dogwhistle good", then... well

I can bring a horse to water, but I can't make you think.

[top-master]

No matter if DEI is good or bad, DEI is a set of policies, and the best way to include all is having no policies except of "treating others nicely", which's what the readme-file suggests.

The OP'er (original poster) of this ticket is using the word "bullshit" and is by doing that going against this repo's sole policy: "treating others nicely".

Hence, close this ticket as soon as possible please, thanks.

[givememymilk]

Oh, so DEI is not a dog whistle then?

DEI is a shorthand for "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion". Its intent is transparent; it's a slogan intended to categorize policies who's goal it is to make spaces more accessible (or, more accurately, remove artificial barriers that make those spaces inaccessible) for the people who most benefit from / provide most benefit to those same spaces.

That is not a "dogwhistle"; there is no subliminal intent or message. The slogan was specifically designed to be as clear and direct as possible -- to tell you what it means at face-value.

The MAGA reference in the readme, however, is a dogwhistle. It's point is to express a subliminal and nonliteral idea; it is an ingroup signal.

If you don't understand what a dogwhistle is, just say that.

No one actually takes DEI as face value - if that's the case, vaxry and Enrico wouldn't have been banned

[miranda]

The E is said to stand for Equity. This means it must be less welcoming to some class of people if they are deemed to be "over represented", else equality of outcome can not be enforced.

You don't even know what the word equity means. Amazing.

[suy]

The 3 boxes are in the left picture as well. You are the dumbest person that has ever criticized this picture. Congratulations.

[AleryBerry]

Equity does not belong to a codebase anyways. I don't care what you believe politics wise. It does not belong to a codebase.

Enrico is overrepresented on his fork for a good reason, and he will be the main driver of success/failure of this project, because no one will realistically deliver more than him for the moment.

What you should expect is Equality, meaning you're welcome to contribute to the project no matter what, but no special treatments or policies that would hinder the project development will take place. Which is already stated in the README.

[ryanknutson]

If the project genuinely is welcoming of people regardless of background, then this project is "DEI"

The E is said to stand for Equity. This means it must be less welcoming to some class of people if they are deemed to be "over represented", else equality of outcome can not be enforced.
So no.

So you mean this is 'less welcoming to some'?

This image has always been disingenuous. It implies that the shorter people need help because they're "lesser" than the tall guy, which can lead to a harmful justification that some races or groups are "lesser" than others and deserve handouts (the boxes). The real issue isn’t the people, it’s the system that’s uneven. The real fix is to lower the fence (the barrier of entry) so that any and all have a fair view.